to cross-talk the n.s.a. scandal i'm joined by my guests in washington karen who is she is a former senior counselor at the world bank and a whistleblower and we crossed to daniel mcadams he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for across in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want daniel if i go to you first i mean obama says he wants reform of the aid to intelligence agencies but we still don't know what he knew and when he knew it and i always get nervous when a politician says that's classified so i mean what is his words mean about reform or does he just want this thing to go away and i'd like to point out to our viewers is that as congress sits down and talks about this we're probably going to get more scandal more stories and more lies so i mean this seems like a fool's errand. well you're right peter and you know what what jay carney the president spokesman said is that the president knew nothing about it however the n.s.a. is doing a great job what they're doing anyway so it really does raise some very troubling

issues does the president have control over the n.s.a. does seem though i mean even more seriously was this an operation approved under president george w. bush that's gone on and they've not bothered to inform the president it's very disturbing and as you as you rightly pointed out this morning apparently congress will be dropping at least one bill congressman sensenbrenner is who is an author of the original patriot act is now going to drop a bill called the usa freedom act so we need the freedom act to free us from his previous patriot act but i'm sure we'll talk about this later the freedom act is not much better than the original care and how do you see this playing out because it's very interesting i see people in congress scrambling about this dianne feinstein is all over the place it's really almost surreal i mean she on the one hand says she's really against the surveillance of foreign leaders but on the other hand she wants the cot if i input into law a lot of these illegal practices i mean this is schizophrenia when it comes to the

national security state. i think this is a matter of survival of the united states because we are about to lose our allies and a very accurate analysis coming out of the defense department shows that we are about to lose germany as an ally this is a matter of national security whatever the people think that they are doing on behalf of the american people they absolutely are not when you look at what american opinion is seventy five percent of the american people want to work together with our allies they don't want to be a go it alone nation in foreign affairs this is absolutely abysmal and what you have to fault is the american press because they are not telling the american public what's going on and specifically we are being run from the outside by a group of foreign companies that have taken over the capital markets very accurate stakeholder a very accurate analysis by mathematicians at the federal institute of technology in zurich switzerland has absolutely. shown up that there is

a couple all of bankers that own the capital markets there just after they've grabbed power and the united states unfortunately is a country that is has been captured by this group of private entities they own the federal reserve system and they are dragging this country into the ground and they are the ones who are spying on its allies there's certainly a lot of spying going on there daniel i mean the thing is is that i can't seem to understand is why should the united states spy on its allies like this listening on the telephone conversations of anglo merkel i mean i mean just what the extent of the thing they're going to get information to protect the national security of the united states i mean is people have suspicions about. merkel and her or her motives in her politics i mean this is so weak stream it makes me want to believe that it has nothing to do with national security at all all it is is to have the advantage

over other. with all times on all things well the think the thing is peter the a lot of this spying was done in cooperation with our with our allies as well certainly the french and the anguish in the u.k. participated in our monitoring of their own citizens i think it only became a huge issue when it became embarrassing when we when found out that the n.s.a. had gone beyond what they had originally agreed to do they do have plenty of intelligence sharing agreements with these countries so that's it's known that they're spying on the individuals and it's the same with dianne feinstein it was only a problem it's not a problem for her that they're spying on americans she's absolutely fine with that it only became a problem when they found out that they were spying on the fellow elites in in europe so that's where it became a problem as to the question of what they tell us it's doing they say well it's keeping us safe from from al-qaeda but that's that's kind of

a left too isn't it because why on earth is the u.s. supporting al qaida in places like syria why did the u.s. intervene in libya and now al qaeda is on top or an affiliate of al qaida is on top and now of all places look in iraq hundreds of people are killed a week by an al qaida that did not exist before the u.s. intervene so how on one hand can they tell us they have to spy on all of us to defeat al qaida and on the other hand they're doing a darn best to support al qaeda throughout the region you know karen you know if we go back to feinstein i think it's really quite interesting is that she was a great protector is a great protector of the national security state and she wants all these reforms and oversight but wasn't that her job in the first place in the senate having the position that she does and looking watching surveillance and intelligence and now she says she wants reform i don't understand that. peter she's not leveling with people what i told her specifically was when. the president of the world bank was

being fired by the board of executive directors paul wolfowitz because he had given an exorbitant pay raise to his girlfriend shall resign i found out because i speak dutch and i happened to be in holland i found out from the representative of the dutch government on the board that the executive directors were being blackmailed to prevent them from firing paul wolfowitz and i came back and i went to the treasury department kenneth peel and i told him what was going on and i told him that we were going to lose nato over this that it was not in the united states' national interest to prevent paul wolfowitz from being fired for giving thirty percent pay raise to his girlfriend so no no and dianne feinstein knows this specifically i went to her. you know she's on the senate committee select intelligence and she's supposed to have oversight and she has fallen down on the job the united states congress has been bought up they're not representing american citizens interests they're lining their own pockets you know daniel any what is

this all about because on the one hand and if i can make a binary here we need intelligence to keep ourselves safe but maybe we need intelligence to keep the n.s.a. in business it's a matter of survival for the intelligence community itself i mean they've divorced himself from the mission it is just to continue the expansion of their empire and prove that they need to exist. well you know they get at the very least some eighty billion dollars a year much of their budget is it's not you're not capable of scrutinizing it and i worked in the u.s. house for eleven years we were never allowed to look at the appropriations for the intelligence community it was all classified so we had no idea what was being appropriated only certain members under certain conditions could actually see what was happening so you have a b.m. of that's gotten out of control and quite frankly i feel sorry for the president if you if you does try to rein them in because it could very well be dangerous. what

is the process of reform here because if we have the over some who oversees the overseers in feinstein is a perfect example of it and it's was her job to do this and now she's saying that you know we need to do a complete revamp i mean who's good who's going to lead that process because it looks to me that congress has really failed in its mission to in it's failed the american people when it comes to intelligence and security peter what we have is a breakdown of the rule of law in the united states on a very fundamental level there's a constitution which provides that the government is going to be governing the people on the consent of the governors and there's a government and there's something called article five which provides that when the state legislatures have asked for a constitutional convention the congress shall convene a constitutional convention there's no ns ifs or buts and in one thousand nine hundred twenty nine thirty five states had a state legislatures had asked for

a constitutional convention and the u.s. congress refused to give the american people one by now we're now up to forty nine fifty state legislatures that have called for a constitutional convention and there is absolutely no excuse for the u.s. congress not to convene a constitutional convention they are the american people hold them in contempt. ok you know i mean i certainly should hold them in contempt and it comes to security because all i ever hear is an al qaeda nine eleven and a few other words and then you know this don't ask questions because don't worry we're taking care of it just trust me well look john inglis who's the deputy n.s.a. director was before the senate judiciary committee earlier this summer and as you remember we were told that the spying was necessary and it's captured dozens of terrorist plots disrupted some fifty terrorist plots where what mr lee said before the senate judiciary committee earlier this year is that quote at most one maybe

what was just maybe maybe one book collection of maybe one maybe one or maybe one was was intercepted exactly. exactly so you know they throw everything into the box and say we've stopped this we've stopped that in the other but but when it comes down to it there's very little to show for this would you agree with that karen because again it's the n.s.a. for n.s.a. sake it sounds like to me what is going to repeat it once more is that the united states is being run by remote control by a group of corrupt companies and these companies want the n.s.a. to find out secrets trade secrets from all the companies in the world this is this is what they're doing it is unacceptable the american people deserve a better government than this ok on that point we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the national security agency state with our team.

choose your language. of choice because we know in a federal prison they still some of us. choose to use the consensus you can. choose the opinions that invigorating to. choose the stories could impact your life choose be access to your office or. press and media freedom worth nothing. when it comes to the interests of multinationals we have a media that is corrupted by power mostly by corporate you have corporate ownership

from the top corporate advertising coming in from the side we have the media this is where advertising and money and corporate influence is really the mother's milk a documentary filmmaker is being sued. for the truth is being told a private investigator sells something something taking e-mails reading it happens people buy and sell those kind of services all of the world. hundreds of million dollar industry that needs to protect its reputation a few million being spent on it on a campaign to do just that is probably goods good money well spent. so what will be the verdict. big boys gone bananas. wealthy british style it's time to put it on.

the. market why not. going to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max cons or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to kaiser report. it was. very hard to take. care of. that fact that they were not.

going to. leave you're. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to mind you were discussing the n.s.a. scandal. ok daniel franco back to you as you pointed out president obama's spokesperson said the n.s.a. is doing an extraordinary job good job guys ten out of ten eccentric cetera though

there's a lot of no comment and that's classified ok but what do you what is the n.s.a. and other organizations like it looking for looking at millions and millions of telephone conversations this this all this data out there i mean is everybody a suspect what are they looking for or are they just saving it for a better for a rainy day to use at a different time. well it is almost sort of a department of pre-crime isn't it you know they are recording these things and if some point in the future of things that you've said ten years ago can be used against you that certainly is the case but to the the other issue is simply how possibly can they process the enormous amount of information that they're hoovering up and find anything useful in it so you have such over collection that you're going to miss what actual threats there are out there and there certainly are some how to address those more effectively is a different discussion but certainly when you put everything in the pot how

possibly can they find what they're looking for they said enough to find the needle you have to have the whole haystack well that does make sense well what they're doing is they're making the haystack much much bigger care and you brought up the industrial espionage element here and i think that's not getting nearly i'm off coverage in the media because we have you know the department of defense says they do not spy there's no industrial espionage done on their part by the u.s. government but it's obviously that they have been in a number of cases in europe and in south america now this makes sense to me and considering what you said earlier is because you can you're you give information to your rivals and when you sit down in negotiations you know what the other side is going to talk about this is very very damaging when we look at the the new trade relationship the united states is building with europe and of course south america has just another reason more to hate the united states. this is absolutely not in the united states' security interest we need allies and where al uniting them for

example on september ninth a military helicopter buzzed the u.s. consulate in frankfurt and broke all the china where in the consulate and when the government spokesperson for the government who didn't want to be identified said this was a shot across the bow how how many more hits do we need than a military helicopter buzzing our our consulate germany has said that they're not going to share intelligence information with the united states anymore we are losing our allies that we absolutely need for our national security this is not a go it alone country and so whatever the n.s.a. thinks that they're doing on our behalf they are betraying us because they're they're making us lose our allies this is this is very clear and i actually warned secretary hagel you know daniel about this one i mean if you could look at european leaders and it becomes a review of that you know that the the n.s.a.

has been doing it the surveillance of their populations and i have to wonder how much of it is for media when the german government or the french government or the spanish government gets very upset because it's very convenient when a foreign government does their spying for you what i'm saying is the germans trade with the americans the british trade with the french and all that it's a way to get around the law i just have to wonder if this is a little bit of bluster and just getting away from the embarrassment and of course blame the americans and blame n.s.a. . david cameron the british prime minister said he's going to start prosecuting the british media that keeps releasing these information from these from the n.s.a. leaker snowden so there is there a certain of the reaction in the u.k. is not let's let's look at this enormous problem it's let's silence the press and you can imagine this is the exact same sort of thing that the u.s. condemns in places like iran and and china and elsewhere so this is the u.k. response to shut up the media care and it will also we see this coming out of the

u.s. it's the media's fault i find that they haven't done enough work but of course the members of the administration are saying you know you're being unpatriotic or you're not you're not defending the national interest well that's what media is supposed to do in the first place. peter this is absolutely not bluster this is dead serious because look at the economics look what's going on in the economics you've got the brics countries brazil russia india china and south africa that are no longer going to be denominated in their international trade in dollars that's twenty five percent of international trade the fear that currencies are about to tag now this is the precursor of a currency war and currency wars are usually the beginning of world wars either we're going to get this corruption straightened out and we're going to get n.s.a. back on a leash or we're going to we're going to go down in flames very going to canada not playing if i can say what's not bluster let me say let me stay with you karen that's a very interesting point because i mean if the united states knows what the other

side is talking about or the other sides this does give them the advantage when we go into this very turbulent time with the u.s. economy with the u.s. dollar recovering in europe this is a see this make sense to me not looking for al qaeda not looking for terrorists but looking for the advantage on the global stage when it comes to economics and big business that does make sense to me that does connect a lot of dots to me because i don't think that you know the american people. are terrorists the europeans are not terrorists either this is what they're looking for they're looking to connect dots to take advantage of the global economy and and at the same time they risk our security because they're not looking for the right things to agree with me on that. absolutely the reason i can be so focused on this is because i'm reading from a very accurate power transition model that says the united states is that a fork in the road either we kick out those corrupt entities that think they own

our country and are bribing our politicians and are running our n.s.a. either we the citizens take back control of our country or we are going to lose our allies and we are going to be alone on the world stage as a third world country that's our choice you know dan do you think the administration is walking away at least publicly to some extent to the n.s.a. i think that's really quite dangerous because you know as we speak now we don't know what the n.s.a. is doing to protect itself and it's a really big beast and it needs a lot of money to keep itself going they're going to react to this here i mean i you know i'm not looking at you know a huge conflict you know publicly but there's going to be a lot of people in the n.s.a. and the military industrial complex thinking this guy's not on our side anymore or never was. yeah and it's also there is a danger there is a groundswell of public discontent with what the n.s.a. has been doing i think that drove a lot of the obama administration's policy toward syria earlier in the summer until

it was caused by a deal thankfully brokered by by president putin however i think what's next on the agenda peter to react against this groundswell of u.s. discontent among the population is it's potentially even more dangerous and it's a horrible word called reform and we're already seeing several reform proposals that are written up that are being written up in the house feinstein has her own which of course her version of reform is to make the n.s.a. stronger but you also have the sensenbrenner bill which will be dropped today as i mentioned earlier the usa freedom act which is supposed to protect us against the patriot act. things drafted many pieces of legislation for congressman ron paul when i worked for him legislation can be very very simple here is the key here is what reform of the n.s.a. of spying here's what it would look like repeal the patriot act and repeal the two thousand and one authorization for military force it would be a two line piece of legislation that would solve all of the problems and instantly

make it legal all of these things that we're talking about but that won't happen you get a two or three hundred page bill that purports to reform all of these issues and you'll have horrible ideas like a government paid privacy advocate who is supposedly arguing for us against the government although they're on the same team you know the whole point of the constitution philosophically was to limit the power of government to limit their ability to do things are against us that we don't want them to do so adding another layer of privacy protection from the government side doesn't do that is philosophically very wrong mistaken and it's in in fact it's anti-american can it can i think any kind of reform that you know the. talking about as we speak right now will be written by somebody in the national security apparatus you know i just can't believe you know daniel's right you know it could be very simple legislation but no all of these things pharmaceutical medical stuff tobacco i don't care what

industry is always written by the industry they protect their interests first and i said this and it's a is too big to fail if i can borrow a phrase from the banking sector then to say it's going to fight back you think they're going to react i think what people are losing sight of is that the american people are now all on board i turn on my computer and i get a lot of feedback from people that are now learning what their government has been doing on their behalf and it is a very serious matter and we ought to also be talking about some of the false flags that the american people are beginning to see through so there is going to be a day of reckoning and we are not going to be accepting this kind of intrusion i had a lawsuit where i turned on my computer hours before a brief was due and somebody had sucked it out of my computer and i had no brief to file ok was this the kind of country you know well i mean if you know it's

interesting because there is a lot of discontent daniel in the country about this center around the world and you know what the n.s.a. knows all about it don't think interesting isn't it. and also i think just because there is a mass amount of discontent doesn't mean that energy will be channeled in a in a more constructive way the media as you pointed out earlier peter is on board with this they will try to manipulate this discontent into a more positive for example for reform let's reform these things rather it's sort of like reforming a tumor you don't want to reform it you need to have it excised from the body so there is a danger and i and i i would have to i'm afraid disagree a little bit with your other guest i don't believe the people are necessarily going to stand up and put a stop to it that easily i think it's much more complicated and i am

a little bit less optimistic well you know if you're given a choice between liberty or security you probably will be denied both i'm quoting one of our founding fathers i want to thank my guests today in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here arche see you next time and remember cross talk programs. please. mission. critical should be free. for charges free. range month free. three stooges free.

and free blog video for your media projects free media. dot com. his lover into an amazon. that had been my dream. but he couldn't hold onto the race such a thing and. now she runs her own amazon factory. in a challenge to men there's no alcohol or smoking and even coffee is forbidden they worship the sun. will he be able to win back men versus women. if we look at the history of the o.p.c. w.n. it's in danger in the past with the united states there is a history of let's say intimidation on many collation whatever you call it if

indeed we find the president is lying or cheating and i. will do that because his life is really on the line in the life of the whole regime then of course then i think a military strike could take place. i

. came from. the european union is taking fish from some of the poorest nations on earth so this is a very serious very urgent problem that needs immediate international action. on territorial waters they fish they load the fish into the ships and leave for.

illegal fishing just taking the bread out of our mouths. so we leave the people. by the sea. their shoes that no one is there with the guests that. are to. mission to teach me.

reform. washington. but intelligence chiefs remain defiant warning of drastic consequences if the spying program. officials in washington to demand an explanation over the. spanish. actually help the surveillance. or security. separation from the united kingdom. cash. turning to the.